Richard Glazar - Treblinka

Richard Glazar, a survivor of Treblinka, is another individual featured prominently in Shoah. In the outtakes, he talks about his Czech heritage, Theresienstadt, his experiences at Treblinka, and witnessing the transports as they arrived from Grodno, Bialystok, Saloniki, and other places. He also describes the prisoner revolt on August 2, 1943 and his escape from the camp. FILM ID 3314 -- Camera Rolls #1-3 -- 01:00:03 to 01:34:05 CR1 Glazar sits on a couch in front of a window. Church bells ring periodically throughout the interview. He talks about his early life: he was born in a small town, Kolin, about 70 miles from Prague. Glazar finished his studies in Prague in 1938. His parents divorced and his mother remarried. His father was deported to Nisko in Octboer 1938 and died there. Lanzmann explains some of the history of Nisko. When the Germans occupied Prague it became too dangerous for Glazar to remain there, so his parents sent him to work as a farm hand in the countryside. His family was assimilated and did not speak Yiddish. Glazar talks about the relations between his extended family members. The farm family for whom Glazar worked during the German occupation knew his grandparents and knew he was Jewish. 01:11:21 CR2 Glazar says that there was antisemitism in Czechoslovakia but he did not suffer from it. Most of his friends were non-Jews (transcript is incorrect and says the opposite). At first they mocked Hitler and his rise in Germany but then they slowly became aware of the threat of nationalism and groups sympathetic to Germany. Lanzmann asks whether his family ever thought of emigrating and Glazar says that his stepfather thought about emigrating to England but decided in the end that it would be too hard to start over with a new life in a new country. Glazar said he only worked, slept, and read books while working on the farm, and that he was not afraid at that time. He stayed on the farm until summer 1942, when he received a notice instructing him to go to Prague to register with the Jewish community organization, which was staffed by German officials. He was made to wear a Jewish star for the first time. He was called for a transport from Prague in September 1942. His parents had been deported to Łódź a year earlier. 01:22:50 CR3 Glazar describes saying goodbye to his parents on the telephone before they were deported. When he received his order to appear for deportation he thought of trying to flee but it was not long after the assassination of Reinhard Heydrich and the Germans were carrying out reprisals against the population. The Jews who were to be deported from Prague waited for two days at the collection point. Glazar did not know where they were going but kept hearing the word Theresienstadt. He knew that some of his relatives had been deported there. FILM ID 3315 -- Camera Rolls #4-6 -- 02:00:04 to 02:34:12 CR4 Glazar talks about his arrival in the Bauschowitz train station outside of Theresienstadt. They had to walk for at least an hour to reach the camp, and there were a large number of old people who were part of the transport. Once at Theresienstadt, he located some of his relatives and visited them. He found that his grandfather was in the hospital after attempting suicide. The hospital was filthy and his grandfather did not recognize him. 02:11:23 CR5 Glazar says that Theresienstadt was not so bad for him. He did not have to work as much as he had when he worked on the farm and he had brought some food with him to supplement his rations. He says that Theresienstadt was another world, a parody. People lived only to see if they would survive. He met people in Theresienstadt who he had known in Prague but never knew that they were Jews. In response to a question from Lanzmann Glazar says that he had nothing to do with the men of the Jewish Council (Aeltestenrat). People in Theresienstadt were afraid of the transports to the East. 02:22:47 CR6 Glazar met various people he had known in Prague, including his religion teacher. He says that the transports to the East caused the greatest fear among the people in Theresienstadt. Lanzmann asks him what the concept of "East" meant to him and he replies that it meant ghettos in Poland where things were even worse and where you might be separated from your family. Almost exactly one month after his arrival he received a deportation order for October 8, 1942. He discovered that an acquaintance of his, Karl Unger, was also to be deported. FILM ID 3316 -- Camera Rolls #7-10 -- 03:00:00 to 03:30:12 CR7 Glazar says that the Jews in the transport did not know where they were going but presumed they were headed to Poland. He describes their arrival in Treblinka and says the area was littered with clothing and other items. He describes disembarking on the ramp and being divided into groups consisting of men and women and children. They were ordered to undress for disinfection. There are two cuts in this camera roll, where footage used in the final film was removed. 03:09:29 CR8 Glazar and some others were ordered to get dressed again and he didn't know what that meant. Lanzmann asks him if he had any idea about the nature of the camp but Glazar says he did not know. Glazar and about 18 other men were taken to a barrack where men sorted through masses of the belongings of the murdered Jews. Glazar asked one of the other men what had happened to the others from the transport and was told in Yiddish that they were dead. 03:15:06 CR9 Glazar still had a hard time comprehending that all of the others from the transport were dead. He realized that Karl Unger had also been chosen for a work detail. There is one cut in this camera roll, where footage used in the final film was removed. 03:19:38 CR10 Glazar and Karl Unger began removing items from the barrack and stacking them in piles in the yard. After working all day they were taken to a barrack where some of the prisoners killed themselves by hanging or by taking poison. There is one cut in this camera roll, where footage used in the final film was removed. FILM ID 3317 -- Camera Rolls #11-13 -- 04:00:08 to 04:33:40 CR11 Lanzmann and Glazar are now sitting outside at a table with a bridge and a river visible in the background. Lanzmann asks a question in French and Glazar answers in German. He says that the prisoners did not feel fear exactly, but that they felt like hunted animals. He says there were a couple of times when men who had been selected for work chose instead to go to the gas chamber because their families had been killed. In response to a question from Lanzmann Glazar says that when he saw the mountains of belongings of those who had gone to the gas chambers he believed that these people were dead. He says that those who came in transports from the West were better treated when they arrived. 04:11:20 CR12 Glazar describes the "tube" which connected the undressing area to the gas chambers. They briefly discuss Franz Suchomel, who was in charge of seizing the valuables from Jews (the"Goldjuden Kommando"). They return to the subject of the "tube" and the difference in treatment given the western and the eastern Jews. Glazar says that, because of their different experiences, the eastern Jews knew that the Germans were capable of mass murder while the western Jews did not dream such a thing was possible. He says that once one is naked one is powerless and he describes how the naked men and women stood in the undressing area, with arms crossed to cover themselves. 04:22:33 CR13 Glazar says that the phrase "draussen im Leben" [outside in life; in real life (?)] was used often in Treblinka. He describes the masses of naked women and children who had lost their individuality. One of the Sonderkommando workers once shouted to the people who had just arrived that they were all going to their deaths but he got no reaction. Glazar says that they already began to think of a revolt in November 1942 and he talks about the differences in mentality between the western and the eastern Jews. FILM ID 3318 -- Camera Rolls #14-16 -- 05:00:04 to 05:35:06 CR14 Glazar continues to talk about how strange he and the other Czech Jews found the Polish Jews when they first arrived. Some of the Polish Jews had gone without food and other necessities in order to try and amass enough dollars to emigrate to the United States. They pause in their conversation while a boat passes by on the river. The camera follows the boat. Glazar describes the process of sorting the clothes and checking them for valuables. There is audio but no video for the last part of this roll. 05:12:49 CR15 Glazar says the Polish Jews had developed the habit of hoarding as many portable valuables as they could because of the pogroms and persecutions they had suffered in the past and consequently their clothing contained the most valuables, a fact not lost on the SS. He says the poor villagers around the camp also had valuables stolen from the Jews, and that prostitutes operated in the area for the SS and the Ukrainians. He says that a whole economy based on the camp developed in the area. 05:23:53 CR16 Glazar says the prisoners who worked in the sorting Kommando also hoarded valuables in case they needed them. He describes the process by which the new arrivals were stripped of documents, clothing, and valuables. The valuables were placed in mailbox-like boxes. Four times per day the valuables would be collected by members of the Goldjuden Kommando, which consisted mostly of jewelers. Eventually everyone was skimming money and valuables from the seized assets, and that Glazar and Karl Unger buried about 100,000 dollars worth of goods that they never recovered. He describes the variety of items seized from the Jews. FILM ID 3319 -- Camera Rolls #17,18 -- 06:00:03 to 06:18:54 CR17 Prisoners stole gold and other valuables for various reasons, including for the preparation of the revolt. Glazar tells the story of a dentist who was caught by Kurt Franz with valuables in his possession. Franz beat the dentist to death and threatened to kill all of the members of the "Goldkommando" but did not do so. 06:07:40 CR18 Glazar says that the prisoners assumed that Franz did not murder the members of the Goldkommando because Stangl ordered him not to kill prisoners capable of work. Lanzmann asks whether the SS men stole money and specifically whether Suchomel, commander of the "Goldjuden," stole money. Glazar found out after the war that the Germans plowed up the grounds of the camp after it was destroyed in search of valuables, and that even long after the war Poles would dig for gold. Lanzmann asks Glazar to talk about the fact that their lives were dependent upon a steady stream of transports arriving at the camp. Glazar says their lives were only partially dependent on the transports and goes on to describe a period of a few months in early 1943 when there were no transports and the entire camp was empty. The prisoners had to survive solely on the meager rations from the camp kitchens until a transport from the Balkans arrived in the second half of March. Suddenly the camp was full of food again. FILM ID 3320 -- Camera Roll #21 -- 07:00:04 to 07:11:20 Glazar repeats the story of the "still" period in the first part of 1943, between the large transports from Grodno and Bialystok in early January and the transport from the Balkans, which did not arrive until the last half of March. The prisoners were very hungry and the SS devised work for them to do, such as regrading the sloped area where they sorted the clothing and other belongings from incoming transports. When Kurt Franz announced that the next day another transport would arrive, the prisoners' first thought was that they would have food once again. Only secondarily were they relieved because they feared for their lives without incoming transports to make them useful to the Germans. Glazar also mentions that they were at that time fully occupied with planning the uprising and they wanted to survive until they could initiate the revolt. He describes the people in the March transport, who were Balkan Jews who had come from a camp in Salonika. Unlike previous transports, these people were healthy and strong and they had no idea that they were about to be put to death. Glazar describes a feeling of powerlessness and shame as he and the other members of the Sonderkommando began stealing as much food as they could. FILM ID 3321 -- Camera Rolls #22-26 -- 08:00:04 to 08:27:45 CR22 Sound on this tape is muddy. The Balkan transport made the members of the Sonderkommando realize that they were an integrated part of the machinery of death at Treblinka. Sound but no image from 08:01:28 to 08:01:51. After the cut Glazar is still talking about the Balkan transport and how this transport made the prisoners realize their role in the death machinery. He says the realization didn't come all at once, but that never before had the disposal of a transport run so smoothly. The prisoners spoke to each other about the feeling of shame and disgrace and this feeling spurred them on in planning the revolt. There are two cuts in this camera roll, where footage used in the final film was removed. 08:07:37 CR23 Lanzmann asks what the SS were doing during the two month quiet period in early 1943 and Glazar says that half the camp was sick with typhus during this period. Glazar waits to continue speaking because a loud boat is passing on the river. Lanzmann finally turns around and tells the cameraman to cut. There is one cut in this camera roll, where footage used in the final film was removed. 08:12:44 CR24 Glazar says that after the transports from the Balkans there came another quiet period. The SS began rebuilding and dismantling parts of the camp and the prisoners began to worry. Lanzmann asks Glazar whether he thought that perhaps there were no more Jews left in Europe to destroy and Glazar says that they thought that at the time but they didn't think that all of the Jews of Europe had been destroyed at Treblinka. They did not know about Auschwitz but they knew about Belzec, Sobibor, and Trawniki. 08:17:49 CR26 (there does not appear to be a camera roll #25) Glazar describes the physical dimensions of Treblinka. Although it was relatively small, it had enormous capacity to kill people. Lanzmann and Glazar discuss the short distance between the part of the camp where people were murdered and the part where those chosen for work lived, and how the division between the two parts was maintained. Glazar says he thinks it was planned that way to reduce the number of witnesses, including witnesses in the SS. FILM ID 3322 -- Camera Rolls #27-30 -- 09:00:07 to 09:23:25 CR27 Glazar talks about an opera singer who was forced to sing for the SS. One night the singer sang a song in Yiddish while the prisoners watched the fires that were burning the exhumed corpses of those killed on arrival. This opera singer put together a small prisoner orchestra. Lanzmann mentions that Suchomel told him about a "Treblinka hymn" and Glazar says that this was Kurt Franz's idea and that the prisoners were forced to sing the song several times a day. He recites a few lines from the song, which Lanzmann terms bitterly ironic. There is one cut in this camera roll, where footage used in the final film was removed. 09:09:27 CR28 Glazar says that Treblinka was full of sounds: screaming, yelling, and also singing. He never saw a bird or heard bird song in Treblinka and one was never alone, always a member of a crowd. 09:12:28 CR30 (clapper reads Roll 30; transcript calls this Roll 29) The prisoners dressed in clothes taken from the people on incoming transports. Glazar describes what he wore, including riding boots, which he kept shined in order to make an impression on the SS. When the clothes got dirty or torn they would choose new ones. It occurred to Glazar one day, when he was contemplating exchanging his flea-ridden pajamas, that perhaps his "new" pajamas had not yet arrived in Treblinka, that they were on their way to the camp in a transport. There were fleas in the summer and lice in the winter, and with the lice came typhus. There was no way to get rid of them. Glazar describes their crowded sleeping conditions. He says there was never any quiet in Treblinka and repeats that one was never, ever alone in the camp. FILM ID 3323 -- Camera Rolls #30A-32 -- 10:00:07 to 10:25:45 CR30A (this correlates to Roll 30 in the transcript and on the clapperboard) Glazar describes the so-called "Hofjuden" (court Jews), who wore special armbands and assisted the SS and the Ukrainian guards. He mentions for the second time a 14 year old boy named Edek (?) who played the accordion for the SS. He talks about the infirmary Kapo, Kurland (?), who was a well-respected man and one of the initiators of the revolt. The infirmary did not function as a hospital but was used as an execution place for prisoners. Audio but no video for a few seconds. Glazar says he witnessed [Unterscharfuehrer August] Miete shoot a pregnant woman who had gone into labor. There is one cut in this camera roll, where footage used in the final film was removed. 10:09:40 CR31 The camera angle has changed so that Lanzmann faces the camera and Glazar has his back to it. The sound is a bit muddy. Lanzmann asks Glazar to expand on the concept of the Hofjuden (court Jews) and Glazar says it is a concept from the Middle Ages and that the Hofjuden cleaned boots, SS quarters, etc. Later they did not wear armbands anymore. The camera zooms in on Lanzmann until Glazar is no longer in the frame. Lanzmann asks whether the Hofjuden were privileged and Glazar says that they were privileged in the first period of the camp, because they did not have to do the worst work. He says that the Kapos were chosen by chance, but that those who were chosen were often leaders, such as Zelo Bloch. He mentions the husband and wife Kapos, the Blaus, and two father and son partnerships. 10:20:58 CR32 Glazar says that the Kapos did not treat the other prisoners badly and in fact protected them when they could. The Kapos punished prisoners who did not share food with the others or who did not behave well toward their fellow inmates. FILM ID 3324 -- Camera Rolls #33-37 -- 11:00:06 to 11:32:38 CR33 The interview is now taking place indoors. Glazar sits in front of a window. He says that the infirmary was undoubtedly located so close to the arrival ramp so that the weak and the ill could be easily sent there for execution. He says that in a transport there might be four or five such people and that sometimes these included children who had become separated from their parents. The "slaves" such as Glazar, who worked in Treblinka, also met their ends at the infirmary, rather than in the gas chamber. He says that for some reason, the SS men were much more prone to execute those workers who were "stamped": who had been whipped and had visible wounds on their faces. August Miete, the SS man in charge of the infirmary was nicknamed the "angel of death." Glazar accompanied new arrivals, including some who were half dead and had to be carried, from the transport to the infirmary. When the pits near the infirmary were full they erected a pyre to burn the bodies. 11:10:16 CR34 Glazar says that in contrast to Auschwitz, where there were actual crematoria, at Treblinka the disposal of the corpses took place in the open air on enormous pyres built of railroad track. He says again that in most cases when the workers were killed they were killed at the infirmary but then he tells of one exception to this, when, in approximately February 1943 a sixteen year old was shot in front of the other workers in the sorting area for neglecting to remove a Star of David badge from a coat as he had been ordered to do. Glazar assumes that the removal of the stars was ordered because the clothing was meant for people in Germany and the SS wanted to hide the fact that the clothing came from Jews. 11:18:05 CR35 Glazar says that in Treblinka the prisoners dreamed that it was all a nightmare and that they would wake or that the world would realize what was happening and come to stop it. He says the worst thing was that they felt abandoned by the whole world. 11:21:25 CR36 Glazar says that they were afraid that the world would never learn what happened in Treblinka. 11:22:47 CR37 Glazar says that the fear that they would all be killed and the world would never know what happened to them drove them to organize the uprising, so that there would be witnesses to tell the world. Lanzmann asks him whether this was an actual fear at the time or whether this was something they felt later. Glazar says that yes, they were afraid nobody would survive to tell of what happened. Lanzmann asks whether they thought about escaping and Glazar tells of an escape plan that never came to pass and two prisoners who did manage to escape with the help of him and some of the other prisoners. It appears that one of the escapees to which Glazar refers is Abraham Bomba. Glazar says that he and Karl Unger both believed that they would survive and this belief probably contributed to their survival. FILM ID 3325 -- Camera Rolls #37-39 -- 12:00:06 to 12:33:33 CR37 (Roll 37 appears twice on the clapper and in the transcript) Glazar says that another key to surviving in Treblinka was to attempt to live as though you were living a normal life by shaving, washing, brushing your teeth, etc, and each time you succeeded at some small thing such as procuring some water and shaving it was as if you had won a battle. He says the revolt had been planned since November 1942 but kept being postponed due to various circumstances. He expands further on the question of who survived in Treblinka, saying that luck and chance also played a role. 12:11:13 CR38 Glazar begins the story of the revolt, the first step of which took place when Edek, the young accordion player, stuck a piece of metal in the lock of the ammunition storehouse. The door was sent to the locksmith to be repaired and the locksmith made an extra key. The prisoners decided that the uprising should take place on August 2, 1943. Glazar mentions the transports carrying the survivors (although half of them were dead on arrival) from the Warsaw ghetto uprising, and a transport of 400 Roma. He says it occurred to him at that point that after all of the Jews had been murdered the Nazis would use Treblinka to kill the other "subhuman" groups. In the weeks before the uprising the SS had fixed up the camp and the train station. Lanzmann asks whether the SS had any inkling that the revolt was about to happen but Glazar is not sure. He says an absurd thing happened a week before the revolt: Kurt Franz ordered that the SS organize a cabaret, and one of the sketches featured a boxing match between two Jews. 12:22:24 CR39 Glazar describes the cabaret, which included the aforementioned boxing match as well as a sketch that advertised Treblinka as a spa where one could breathe fresh air and receive care in the hospital. Lanzmann asks whether anyone laughed at this sketch and Glazar says no one, not even the SS laughed. Franz ordered another boxing match between two of the "Scheisskapos" (the prisoners who worked in the latrines), and then the Jews sang songs, the last one being a song from "The Jewess from Halevi" which contains lyrics about vengeance ("Raecher ich weihe dich dem Tode ein.") Stangl turned around and looked at the Jews and at that moment Glazar thought he might have a premonition about the revolt that was to come. He says that almost all of the prisoners were aware of the revolt, including the twelve women who worked in the SS laundry. FILM ID 3326 -- Camera Rolls #40-43 -- 13:00:09 to 13:32:56 CR40 Glazar goes into more detail about the revolt. He says that as of February 1943 not more than 50 of the approximately 600 prisoners had military training or were otherwise familiar with the use of weapons. He goes on to describe the plan itself and the events in the days leading up to the uprising. Glazar mentions a man named Stanislaw Lichtblau, who played a heroic role in the revolt. 13:11:14 CR41 Glazar describes how the revolt transpired. They saw one of the prisoners who they knew to be an informer talking to SS man Kurt Kuettner so they started the revolt early. Lichtblau blew himself up along with a gas tank. Glazar says the revolt succeeded in part because the barracks were destroyed. But then they had no more ammunition and were being shot like rabbits by the SS and especially by the Ukrainian guards. He says the whole uprising lasted about fifteen minutes. He escaped over a fence and jumped into a pond to hide himself. At some point he realized that Karl Unger was with him. They hid in the water until late at night and then fled. They saw that parts of the camp were on fire. They ran all night and then hid themselves and slept once it began to get light. They had a plan to go back to Moravia and join the partisans. For several days they slept during the day and walked at night. 13:22:16 CR42 Glazar says that ever since they had seen Treblinka in flames he and Karl Unger had felt that they were human again and no longer felt any fear. When they asked for help from the Poles they knew better to say that they were Jews, but instead said they had escaped from prison and were fleeing the Germans. They swam across the Vistula and finally worked up the courage to begin travelling during the day. They were arrested by a forester who thought they were partisans. 13:26:53 CR43 When they got near Warsaw they did not know how to proceed further because there were German soldiers everywhere. They got the idea to cross a German shooting range. They succeeded but then were arrested by the forester. They told the forester that they were Czech volunteers working for Organisation Todt and had been robbed by partisans. Glazar says that such a story was quite believable at the time. The sound stutters a bit at the very end of the reel. FILM ID 3327 -- Camera Rolls #44-46 -- 14:00:06 to 14:28:11 CR44 The frame now includes Lanzmann and Glazar seated on a sectional sofa. Glazar's dog lies down next to him on the couch. The camera moves in to include only Glazar and the dog. Glazar says that after their arrest the Polish police didn't know what to do with them so they put them in jail for the night. As they were led through the street someone yelled to the policeman, "Who are you arresting? Some Jews to be shot?" and the policeman answered, "No, maybe just partisans." The next day they were sent to Tomaszow Mazowiecki and interrogated by Poles and ethnic Germans. They were jailed and interrogated for three weeks but stuck to their story. One day their jailers asked for volunteers to work and they were set to the task of cleaning up the completely destroyed Jewish ghetto of Tomaszow Mazowiecki. Glazar says that they asked where the Jews were taken and the policeman who was watching them said he didn't know, but he and Karl Unger knew where they had been sent. 14:06:05 CR45 He and Karl soon realized that they would either be sent to Auschwitz or to forced labor in Germany. They were sent to Mannheim, Germany by way of Vienna. When they arrived in Mannheim the city was badly damaged. They went to work at the Heinrich Lanz AG factory which was producing armaments. He and Karl received clothing to wear and realized (speculated?) that the coats must have come from Treblinka. They were housed with Ukrainians who reminded them of the Ukrainian guards in Treblinka. 14:17:06 CR46 When Karl and Glazar arrived at their housing in Mannheim they heard a Ukrainian song coming from the barracks, which brought memories of Treblinka back to them. Glazar sings two Ukrainian songs, which bring tears to his eyes, maybe for the first time in the interview. He and Karl falsified their papers to indicate that they were Czechs who had volunteered for work in Germany. Because they did very hard work in the smithy at the factory, they were entitled to better rations nd they also got some food from their many German girlfriends. Lanzmann asks whether they felt hatred toward the Germans but Glazar says no, that the Germans they met were not like the SS from Treblinka. They never spoke of the Jews to their German friends and they saw no Jews in Mannheim. They thought perhaps they were the last two Jews left. They were happy about every bomb that fell on Mannheim. By March 1945 the factory was destroyed and the city of Mannheim was almost empty. FILM ID 3328 -- Camera Rolls #47-54 -- 15:00:06 to 15:34:02 CR47 Glazar and Unger were liberated by the Americans and were interrogated for two days before they were brought before a Jewish officer, who said that he believed their story and asked Glazar to pray in Hebrew. Glazar recited the only prayer in Hebrew that he knew, the Sabbath prayer over bread and wine. At Lanzmann's request he recites the prayer. Lanzmann asks if they took any money from Treblinka and Glazar says that both he and Unger took diamonds, which they hid in shaving soap. After the war both he and Karl had the diamonds set in rings which their wives wear. He shows Lanzmann the shaving kit and soap and his wife's ring. Lanzmann holds the ring and the camera focuses on it for several seconds. 15:07:52 CR48 and CR49 Lanzmann says that Suchomel spoke admiringly of the Czech group. Glazar says that the SS had a sort of respect for them, especially for Zelo Bloch and Rudolf Masaryk, who was a half-Jew who had voluntarily accompanied his Jewish wife to Treblinka and who looked more Aryan than the SS. He says that the discussion after the war is always about why the Jews didn't offer more resistance. 15:11:12 CR50 Glazar says that the SS and especially Suchomel admired Rudi Masaryk. Lanzmann asks him whether he had pity for the Polish Jews. Glazar says that the Polish Jews were very foreign to him and he had never seen such poor people as those who came from Poland and Russia. In response to a question from Lanzmann he says that the prisoners in Treblinka did hear about the Warsaw ghetto uprising, and then the surviving Jews arrived at the camp. Glazar says the majority of workers in Treblinka were Polish Jews. There were only 18 Czechs. Glazar talks about the ability or inability of the Jews to respond violently when their lives were threatened by the Germans. 15:21:34 CR51 Glazar begins to tell a story about how Kurt Franz chose two men to be so-called "Scheisskapos," dressed by the SS in kaftans and rabbi's hats, who would make sure that prisoners spent no longer than two minutes in the latrine and did not speak to each other while using the toilet. The camera is focused on Lanzmann as he listens to Glazar. 15:23:38 CR52 Glazar continues the story of the two "Scheisskapos," one of whom would play an important roll in the uprising. 15:26:05 CR53 Glazar says that one of the two "Scheisskapos" allowed members of the resistance to use the latrine as their headquarters. 15:30:39 CR54 Lanzmann asks Glazar whether there were many religious items in Treblinka. Glazar says religious items were the only items not sorted, that they were considered trash and were burned in the infirmary. FILM ID 3329 -- coupes peniches bagues -- 16:00:20 to 16:07:54 Mute shots of the river with a barge passing under a bridge. Mute shots of Glazar and Lanzmann sitting at a table overlooking the river. Mute shots of Lanzmann indoors as he listens to Glazar. CUs of the diamond ring and the shaving kit. FILM ID 3330 -- chutes peniches -- 17:00:06 to 17:01:39 Mute shots of boats on the river.